I am finding that the more I pray, the more vague my prayers become. I feel this is contrary to popular teachings. Lord, how do you see this person? What is my right relationship with them? How do I become more like you in pondering this situation? Specifics seem to limit His response and I am asking Him to change me and my heart despite the circumstances. I think Jesus was in the business of change, real change like forgiveness, repentance, deliverance, healing. I don't want my small minded thoughts to limit the power of the Almighty One. I think following Jesus is more of Jesus and less of me and sometimes my thoughts, even my prayers may hinder that. To want to follow Him seems academic, to follow Him is life changing.
Gretchen, you express a very profound thought: "To want to follow Him seems academic, to follow Him is life changing." Wow! This is so true. It's a mystery how we move from "wanting" to follow to actually following Jesus. The power of Jesus' words lies in their embodiment. May we be given grace to do what Jesus says.
• When Jesus called those men/women into a discipling relationship, there was no option to their learning obedience to his word/teachings. Apprenticeship to Jesus meant a relationship of student to Master. Follow me meant yoke up with me and learn from me. Becoming a seasoned and formed disciple of Jesus is not unlike a person wanting to be a Marine, who could not do so without coming under the strict disciplines of a DI and undergoing rigorous Boot Camp training. Only after sufficient training with sufficient personal responses could the man/woman call themselves a Marine…and only after such formative training would that person act like a Marine when under duress because they had become what they had aspired to be - without thinking about it.
• Learning obedience is primary and fundamental to being and becoming a disciple of Jesus. Such a learning curve means living in a Yes, Lord Jesus relationship. Jesus put it: Do not call me, Lord, and do the things that I tell you. Could this fundamental of relationship be made any clearer? There need not be any balking of the disciple due to their sense of inadequacy. When Jesus calls a person into this kind of relationship He is fully aware of the limitations of His unformed, malformed, inadequate novice. He makes this quite obvious by saying, I am the vine, you are the branches…without me you can do nothing. This is why the beginner must realize that his/her obedience to the Lord Jesus is formative, even transformative, and will ultimately result in their long-desired pursuit:
A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher and a servant like his master. – Matt. 10:24f
A disciple is not above his teacher, but every one when he is fully taught will be like his teacher. – Luke 6:40
• Jesus himself was the unrivaled, greatest disciple before he was designated Master. He perfectly learned from his Father. See Hebrews 5:7ff. Jesus fully pleased the Father and at the proper time was deputized God’s promised Messiah. Isaiah’s descript perfectly fits the Messiah-in-the-making:
The Lord God has given me the tongue of those who are instructed, to know how to sustain the weary with a word. He awakens me each morning; he awakens my ear to listen that those being instructed. The Lord God has opened my ear, and I was not rebellious; I did not turn back. I gave my back to those who beat me, and my cheeks to those who tore out my beard. I did not hide my face from scorn and spitting. The lord God will help me; therefore I have not been humiliated; therefore I have set my face like flint, and I know I will not be put to shame.
- Isaiah 50:4ff
When the three disciples heard the voice from heaven on the mount of transfiguration the message could not have been clearer:
This is my beloved Son. I take delight in Him. Listen to Him! – Matthew 17:5
That was to be their relationship to him. And listen does not mean be entertained. Hebrews 5:9.
Thanks Ed for your thoughtful response. I especially resonate with what you say regarding "beginners" and how important it is that they learn obedience right from the start. It is not "knowledge", per se, that forms or transforms us but simple, childlike obedience. In fact, understanding often only comes after obedience.
I don't think it is enough to just "want to follow Jesus." If a person really "wants to", he or she will. But I am afraid I am in the “want to want to want to want to . . .” category. I do find space and time to be alone with God's Word early in the morning. I spend time with others "listening" to Jesus. But I fall well short of the Sermon on the Mount and Matthew 16:24. To put it bluntly, I am a coward, afraid to "rock the boat" so to speak.
I can certainly relate to you Tom. Fortunately, my "want to" can be transformed into "I will". This is why it's so important to keep Jesus at the center of everything. He can supply what we lack.
I love the idea of Mary not only pondering but "tending" what she heard. In our "speed it up world", it's too often the tendency to "go on to the next thing" rather than stay put with one thought long enough for it to change our hearts.
Your observation that Jesus gathered disciples around him, rather than going it alone, is an important one. It relates in a powerful way to the tensions that exist in our society between individualism and community.
Thank you Annie for this very important insight. I've experienced the same! All the more we need to pay heed to the beatitudes. Those who are blessed are also those whom God uses to speak to us.
I appreciate your point very much. The "imperative" grows out of the "indicative." Unless we see who Jesus is and what it is he brings, his commands become untethered from the good news.
I am finding that the more I pray, the more vague my prayers become. I feel this is contrary to popular teachings. Lord, how do you see this person? What is my right relationship with them? How do I become more like you in pondering this situation? Specifics seem to limit His response and I am asking Him to change me and my heart despite the circumstances. I think Jesus was in the business of change, real change like forgiveness, repentance, deliverance, healing. I don't want my small minded thoughts to limit the power of the Almighty One. I think following Jesus is more of Jesus and less of me and sometimes my thoughts, even my prayers may hinder that. To want to follow Him seems academic, to follow Him is life changing.
Gretchen, you express a very profound thought: "To want to follow Him seems academic, to follow Him is life changing." Wow! This is so true. It's a mystery how we move from "wanting" to follow to actually following Jesus. The power of Jesus' words lies in their embodiment. May we be given grace to do what Jesus says.
• When Jesus called those men/women into a discipling relationship, there was no option to their learning obedience to his word/teachings. Apprenticeship to Jesus meant a relationship of student to Master. Follow me meant yoke up with me and learn from me. Becoming a seasoned and formed disciple of Jesus is not unlike a person wanting to be a Marine, who could not do so without coming under the strict disciplines of a DI and undergoing rigorous Boot Camp training. Only after sufficient training with sufficient personal responses could the man/woman call themselves a Marine…and only after such formative training would that person act like a Marine when under duress because they had become what they had aspired to be - without thinking about it.
• Learning obedience is primary and fundamental to being and becoming a disciple of Jesus. Such a learning curve means living in a Yes, Lord Jesus relationship. Jesus put it: Do not call me, Lord, and do the things that I tell you. Could this fundamental of relationship be made any clearer? There need not be any balking of the disciple due to their sense of inadequacy. When Jesus calls a person into this kind of relationship He is fully aware of the limitations of His unformed, malformed, inadequate novice. He makes this quite obvious by saying, I am the vine, you are the branches…without me you can do nothing. This is why the beginner must realize that his/her obedience to the Lord Jesus is formative, even transformative, and will ultimately result in their long-desired pursuit:
A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher and a servant like his master. – Matt. 10:24f
A disciple is not above his teacher, but every one when he is fully taught will be like his teacher. – Luke 6:40
• Jesus himself was the unrivaled, greatest disciple before he was designated Master. He perfectly learned from his Father. See Hebrews 5:7ff. Jesus fully pleased the Father and at the proper time was deputized God’s promised Messiah. Isaiah’s descript perfectly fits the Messiah-in-the-making:
The Lord God has given me the tongue of those who are instructed, to know how to sustain the weary with a word. He awakens me each morning; he awakens my ear to listen that those being instructed. The Lord God has opened my ear, and I was not rebellious; I did not turn back. I gave my back to those who beat me, and my cheeks to those who tore out my beard. I did not hide my face from scorn and spitting. The lord God will help me; therefore I have not been humiliated; therefore I have set my face like flint, and I know I will not be put to shame.
- Isaiah 50:4ff
When the three disciples heard the voice from heaven on the mount of transfiguration the message could not have been clearer:
This is my beloved Son. I take delight in Him. Listen to Him! – Matthew 17:5
That was to be their relationship to him. And listen does not mean be entertained. Hebrews 5:9.
Thanks Ed for your thoughtful response. I especially resonate with what you say regarding "beginners" and how important it is that they learn obedience right from the start. It is not "knowledge", per se, that forms or transforms us but simple, childlike obedience. In fact, understanding often only comes after obedience.
I don't think it is enough to just "want to follow Jesus." If a person really "wants to", he or she will. But I am afraid I am in the “want to want to want to want to . . .” category. I do find space and time to be alone with God's Word early in the morning. I spend time with others "listening" to Jesus. But I fall well short of the Sermon on the Mount and Matthew 16:24. To put it bluntly, I am a coward, afraid to "rock the boat" so to speak.
I can certainly relate to you Tom. Fortunately, my "want to" can be transformed into "I will". This is why it's so important to keep Jesus at the center of everything. He can supply what we lack.
I love the idea of Mary not only pondering but "tending" what she heard. In our "speed it up world", it's too often the tendency to "go on to the next thing" rather than stay put with one thought long enough for it to change our hearts.
Your observation that Jesus gathered disciples around him, rather than going it alone, is an important one. It relates in a powerful way to the tensions that exist in our society between individualism and community.
Your right, Kenneth, about the tension in our society between individualism and community. In God's kingdom, no such tension exists.
I, personally, have found that God speaks to me through others and His call is emphasised through the words and actions of people least expected.
Thank you Annie for this very important insight. I've experienced the same! All the more we need to pay heed to the beatitudes. Those who are blessed are also those whom God uses to speak to us.
Communication cannot occur without a sender and a receiver. So powerful.
I appreciate your point very much. The "imperative" grows out of the "indicative." Unless we see who Jesus is and what it is he brings, his commands become untethered from the good news.